Note: this is written a few months ago.
My concerns about Star Wars VII, also a bit about Glee, Disney and sequels in general! Also: Hollywood, stop making other unnecessary sequels!
I’m not English; I speak Dutch, so please forgive my spelling mistakes
and any error with grammar.
Note: when I’m talking about sequels
in this text, MOSTLY, I’m NOT talking about films in which the story is made to
be told in multiple films (like trilogies and stuff). I am –again: MOSTLY -
talking about films where the idea of a second one, only came after finishing
the first one. We don’t really need to see this second one, ‘cause the story was already over *1 after the
first one.
Some examples of the first category
(to name some big ones) are Lord of the Rings (1-3), Harry Potter (1-8), Star
Wars (IV-VI) Pirate of the Caribbean (2-3). Often, they are book-based movies.
Some examples of the second category
are The Matrix, Toy story, again Pirates of the Caribbean and a lot of these
superhero movies.
The things I said above aren’t exact
of course. In fact, every film is another specific case, but it would be a bit
crazy to try talking about every single sequel or prequel ever made.
*1 Note: In
this case, I don’t mean there isn’t more stuff to be told. In some cases there
is. I’m really talking about the story of the movie here. In the rest of the
text however, I do use the sentence ("the story is over") as in ‘the story is told, the characters
are played and there is no more stuff to be told about them. A sequel isn’t
really necessary and could destroy it all.’
Far example, I think after Toy
story 3, even when it are three separate movies, the ‘story’ is over. Andy is
gone, we learned how to love these toys, we know who they are, but there is
just no more new story in them. I also had that feeling after Incredible 1. (To
make some comparison.)
Star Wars is a bit different though,
‘cause there were always rumors of making 9 films, based around one big story.
But the way I see it is the upcoming new trilogy is something new, ‘cause, for
me, the story from IV to VI was over. It had his ending. (Also, I know the
whole Star Wars legacy aren’t only these three films. There are books, comics,
fan fiction, games, The Clone Wars,… But I do think these (three) films are the
important foundation of the legacy)
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This document doesn’t include all things I have to say about sequels.
Sometimes I absolutely love them or sometime I just hate them ‘cause of totally
different reasons, not described in this text. This document just contains a
few of my concerns about sequels and Star Wars VII.
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Before reading the text, take a look
at this YouTube film first:
When I saw this YouTube video today,
called ‘How to make Star Wars VII Good’, I became a bit angry. I never really
had my concerns about the whole thing till now. I was the guy who said: “we’ll
see... I don’t really like that Disney is doing it... But yeah, it can still be
good.” After seeing this video I still think there’s this small chance VII will
turn into something good, but I’m concerned about what Disney will do with it.
Of course we do not know anything
about episode VII yet, but I did put some thought lately in things called
Sequels, prequels, reboots, book-based movies and extra seasons on a television
series. I don’t really like what I’m seeing there.
All these sequels and prequels, are
they really necessary? In most cases - and in my opinion - they destroy the
original movie or book. Where are the original ideas, guys? Also, I really
don’t get why some of them get so much attention when sometimes they’re clearly
made relying on the (financial) success of the original one, rather than
wanting to tell us a good story.
The reason why I got a bit angry at
this YouTube video is the way these two guys (the interviewer and Michael
Barryte) react on a comment of Justin Donaldson, the third guy in it. While, in
my opinion, these first two guys are the ones totally not getting the sequel
thing. Man, they’re literally laughing at Donaldson when he says a good Star
wars follow up would be one with all the original characters/cast taking lead
(so, no new lead characters). Is that really the way we do it guys? Laugh at
someone’s opinion because it’s a bit different.
I believe it’s not the dumbest idea
I’ve heard yet. I really can see why he is saying it. Okay, maybe the cast
would be a little old, our out of shape (no rude intensions here), but it isn’t
a stupid or impossible idea. (Maybe by recasting some of the characters.)
The other guy ‘Barryte’ thinks that
a ‘mixed thing’ would be a better idea: to see all of the old places back, have
a new cast and new characters, but have some of the oldies around to. Now, I
think that’s a bad idea. I believe, that’s the idea, which turned some sequels
into really bad movies:
I will take a very clear example to
explain my concerns about sequels in general, and my concerns about what I
think wont be good for Star Wars.
The example is ‘Glee’. I’ve seen
every single episode of the show and it’s a perfect example of how they’ve
ruined a (successful) lovable, good series. Decreasing their viewers in no
time. (Note: I’m not really hating the show, I think It’s just a shame what it
became to be. Also, if you don’t like Glee, it is still a good example for
explaining myself.) (I’ll come back to it later)
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(In passing; Watch out! My opinion
about art: I am not saying ratings are a good measurement for the quality of a
series, or for art in any sense of the word. I do think every film is art even
when it is in someone’s - or in a large number of people’s - opinion a bad
movie. I also believe art can be anything, and I don’t necessarily think art or
culture needs to be made for the amount of viewers or participators you will
have. So please understand I’m not saying any sequel or new season of a series
need to have the same amount of success as the original one. When art even only
reach 10 peoples that loves the creation or even hate it, it is still art and
it has still its reason to exist, because art does something ‘different’ (to a
human). Even when a sequel creates a whole Internet war, that’s the
‘difference’. You know…, people do care about it then.)
The thing is; art is made to
experience that ‘different thing’ and also made for the artist himself (my opinion),
because he’s the one trying to get that different experience then. When I’m
talking about movie sequels, I'm talking about different kind of art. Mostly,
in my opinion, lacking this same amount of caring and loving from the makers
(that’s how I received a lot of these movies). They are sometimes directly made
to have success with the audience. When I look at it that way, I maybe can take
the amount of viewers as a way
of judging the quality of a sequel.
(Also, I can’t, ‘cause if there are some people who loved it; for them, it is
good movie. But if We put it that way we could of course never discuses the
‘goodness’ of a film.)
-----
Sometimes film creators made
something good and it became something we, as an audience, care about. Then, of
course, these filmmakers get the idea of making more (sequels, prequels, … ) In
a sequel, I do believe, we as an audience aren't looking for the stuff we
already know. I mean, we do, at some level. But I think that’s just a side
affect of caring about the stuff we love. Sure, we want to feel the old stories
again, but I believe that is what we are looking for in a superficial way. The
thing we are really looking for in a sequel is just a good story, not stuff
that made the original story into a hit.
Sure, we want to see Gandalf again
in the Hobbit (cause’ we already learned to love him), but in our hearts we
don’t want him to be a product of ‘Lord of the Ring’ He has to be a product of
the Hobbit now. Sure, we want to see Saruman or Legolas back on the screen, but
we all know they have no place in The Hobbit. They will just be there because
they were successful in LOTR. Its like they want to inject some LOTR in The
Hobbit, so it would become instant success.
It never hurts to make one or two
references to LOTR, but basically we just want to see a good story based on The
Hobbit.
Even when you don’t think what I'm
telling here is the case; I do believe deep inside, you know it is.
So probably Star Wars fans want to
see al the Luke and Leia fun back on screen (it does not have to be them in
person, a lot of references will do to), but I believe the filmmakers have to
watch out for that.
What we don’t want to see is the
oldies along with a hole new cast so we can say afterwards: “Shit, why weren't
the oldies more important in this new movie like, why weren’t they more like we
used to know them...¨
We probably go and see the movie
because it is Star Wars and want to see some familiar things, but we all know
that is not what we actually want.
Sure we do care about the old
movies, we care as much as the creators do and these movies are their babies. But
what we really care about when it comes to VII, is the film to have a good
script, we don’t want to see movie based on the success of the original.
Now back to the YouTube video: This
Donaldson guy isn’t really a dump person for saying what he said. I don’t
believe in a mix of old and new things, as the other guy says it. Its just
playing with the success you already achieved. Donaldson makes a valid point:
we want to see the old cast, not as a piece of star Wars-success implanted into
Episode VII. If they come back (original cast or recast), there is only one
place for them and that is as leading roles. Cause we care about them to much
to put them in the sideline saying: “hey we are just here because we were a
success-product of the original trilogy’. Get them all back together is not the
most stupid idea. It’s just an idea derived out of love for these characters. I
think we don’t want to see other people doing a new story that probably will be
the same kind of battle, with them on the sideline. If they’ll be there then
they must be a product of episode VII not a product of IV to VI.
Back to Glee. Glee is a perfect
example for what I’m trying to saying. Glee was/is something big. We have grown
as the characters have grown and we learned how to love them. We do care about
them, and really, really like them cause’ of the lovable arcs they have nicely
put into seasons 1 to 3. The thing is, with the ending of season 3, the story
was told. This group of underdogs became something special. They achieved their
goals (Trying not to spoil anything), they had boy-or girlfriends and found
there way to their dreams. In my opinion, it was a good show until then. I know
there was much cliché stuff going on, we’ve literally seen a lot of glee-stuff
in hundreds of TV shows and films before, but there was some new and refreshing
way of bringing it to the audience.
The thing is, after 3 they could as
well just stopped the show there. It would have been beautiful. Instead, the
makers didn’t could let it go and made 2 more seasons already. Guess what?
Ratings dropped, a lot of people are just hate-watching it now.
I guess they did something wrong?
After season 3, if they wanted it to
work, they had two choices I think. They came on a crucial point at that
moment: everyone loved and cared and the hate-loving thing wasn’t really going
on in the same amount as it is nowadays.
A. They could have followed the
faces we already love, but then they ‘really had to really reinvent
themselves’, because the underdog card was played by now. (I mean really
reinvent themselves: shake it up, who are these characters we know, are they
still the same? Discover some new things we don’t already know. If a sequel is
build around the original characters (form it’s earlier installment), it has to
make them (and the story) fresh and original, so it could let you forget the
old series. Then, when you come at a point later on in the series where they
want to put some nostalgic stuff in it and make some references to the
beginning of the series, it will be probably very strong material, because it
will be these old characters, that became new characters (in some way)
revisiting their roots. In Glee these characters constantly make references
about/and are revisiting their roots and stuff. There is no place for
nostalgic, because the show never really left.)
Or B. they could have start with a
fresh new cast and fired, really fired every other cast member we’ve seen and
loved. Except for the very, very few folks they needed to setup the completely
new story (like Silvester or Shue, but they had to be reinvent as well, or
maybe even these guys had to been thrown out as well and only kept Figgens. Or
they just had to focus on another school or something) Then, you could start
with this fresh new stories (in the same universe). And we, as an
audience, could have really started over again with trying to love this new
people and getting along with them.
Guess what? Glee did both and
probably not even in a good way. They mixed both of these story lines. They
throw a bunch of new people in our faces, we cant really love cause of the old
character constantly getting in their way and the old ones couldn’t really grow
anymore cause’ the newbies had to be introduced. The show couldn’t really let
the old characters grow in something more then a Glee club, because half the
show was still about these W. Mckinley high school-kids. They started to create
this show that wanted to stay with his roots by telling stories about
underdogs, so every fucking episode was all about ‘look we are misfits, we
really are!’ It was silly, cause the old ones we loved, suddenly didn’t looked
like they’ve gain any character-growth, and the new ones were just caricatures
of the old ones.
It became a show Based on what we
loved before - but isn’t actually the lovable thing anymore. The story was
closed after 3, so the choice was reinventing the old and loved cast (Really
reinvent it, not try to go on with same old ‘we are misfits’ thing). Or they
had to get along with only the new cast with a totally other story not based on
the success story from the earlier episodes. They mixed both possibilities,
plus, they still wanted to do a show with the same story over and over again
with both the new and old cast. The show made a caricature from the formerly
show itself.
It became even worse when they
started to listen to the audience because they (Glee makers) knew they failed
at some level.
“The audience says the new cast
doesn’t work: ‘well, we write them off’ ”, but it only made it worse. Instead
they have to listen to their own creative voice.
We couldn’t really start over again
when it comes to having an opinion about the show. It felt to much like they
wanted to continue with the old show (that was already over in 3). There wasn’t
a chance for us to leave so we could have a fresh start. Cause’ of all the
familiar faces and stuff, we were constantly comparing the new seasons with the
old ones. I think that is not a healthy situation. We cared about the old ones
and at the end of season 3 we all loved everything that happened so far, but
also started to create our own opinions about what would happen to these
characters after wards. Every single one of us did that. When you just go
on with the show and throw a bunch of new things in it, it’s just not what we
wanted to see. Maybe for some of us it is, but as I said: everyone had his own
thought. Hard to compete with that, isn’t it Ryan? (Of course it would be admirable
if they could have pulled it of). And then, the whole lover-hater thing
started. Now, everyone says different things about how it has to go on, and as
we are figuring out that one person can’t win that battle, we are leaving the
battle, and the show behind.
You know we cared; we got our own
opinions about it and that’s why the show doesn’t work anymore. (It still does
for a smaller amount of audience) But, as I say, they’re making this show for
the having success-thing only and, for me, it is lacking the love of the
filmmakers we can fiend in the earlier series. That’s wrong I think.
Now the hate-love thing is going on,
and I think that’s pretty damn hard to get out of that.
That is why I have my doubt about
sequels. At some point the story is told and you have to stop, because in
that moment, we love the characters so much, we all want to create our own
story with it. All of us have our own opinion about what’s next. (That’s
what happening with Star Wars I think). I think reaching that point is something
beautiful, you know: Sticking to a bunch of characters that much... But,
creating more stuff when the story is over, destroys that beautiful place we
all reached together and starts the battle.
I’m not exited about ‘finding Dory’
or ‘Incredibles 2’ (what are you doing Pixar?), another ‘planet of the
apes’, ‘avatar2’ or an other
superhero or fairytale reboot,... The stories are told, the characters are
played.
I did like Toy Story 3, cause’ there
was still story to be told after the second one and I am excited about The
Harry Potter spin-off about Newt Scamander, because I could escape into that
same world again, but with a totally new story that will probably have nothing
to do with Harry Potter itself.
I even liked ‘American Reunion’,
because it were all the oldies again, not another lame attempt to make a film
about some Stifler relative, trying to reach what American Pie was.
Not that I don’t want Star Wars VII
(as a mediocre fan) to happen. The thing is: I just don’t want that mixed thing
to happen with Star Wars. I love Star Wars, but it would be a bad thing not
letting me as a watcher of the film, start a with a fresh story, either by
putting a totally new cast and story in it or by bringing all the old ones
back, reinvent them to create a good story, but not by mixing these two paths.
Most of the time, mixing that stuff creates lame sequels where they tried to do
something new, but couldn’t let the success of the old one go.
You know that’s what I’m afraid of
when it comes to VII, that it will be this thing introducing new stuff but
stick to much to the old stuff. I think you must choose; completely the old
stuff and reinvent it (I think that’s why I’m saying Donaldson’s idea is not
stupid) or only new kids, with maybe
a very, very small amount of links to the old ones and only when it improves
the story, not because the old ones already proved they’re good.
I know it’s a bit hard to believe
all of this, but I think that it’s normal when you love something like Star
Wars we want to see more of what we already saw, but that is just what we want
on the on the surface. In your heart, you just want a good movie that is part
of the Star Wars universe, either it is with no references to the original
ones, or it are all of the original characters.
What Donaldson is saying isn’t that
stupid, for me, it is actually the other guy who is more wrong, when talking
about mixing it. (New stories while all the old stuff can be part of it.)
I think Star Wars VII will be a
difficult one to make (cause of all these reasons) and maybe isn’t a good idea
at all (we’ll see).
And, it’s not just Star Wars, it’s
just all the sequels, prequels, reboots, and in some way even spin-off stuff.
Why Hollywood?
I think a sequel is a beautiful
thing. It can improve a story. But don’t use them whenever you’ve got a
box-office success (That doesn't imply the movie itself is good in the first
place).
VII will be an endless battle
between haters and lovers.
And that’s why I think VII wasn’t
really something that has to be made, because it will always be that battle
between, the ones who say it destroyed the original Star Wars and the ones who
say it’s a good extension of that universe (something the prequels actually
already did - creating that battle I mean - so why recreate that battle
again?).
I think it never can be good cause’
of that reason. I don’t mean it can be a good movie (script-wise), for some it
probably will be. But it won’t be a good movie because there also are so many
people that care about these Star Wars movies, and have created their own ideas
about it. It will only fill in some of these people’s ideas, and disappoint
many others.
That’s why I’m saying the thing
about a complete new cast/characters, or the complete old character/cast thing.
Because I believe there is the least danger to destroy the movie’s legacy by
choosing one of those more radical paths. Or A.) It will be something
completely new (while being in the same universe) and we can base our opinions
on a fresh original thing. So, if it is bad, it won’t destroy the original
story and characters much because in some way it hasn’t anything to do with
them. OR B.) It has to be completely based on the old characters (that doesn’t
imply there can’t be some new characters in the movie or the old characters can
be played by new actors) and they take the lead in some way, because then there
isn’t this danger these characters we love are mixed up with new characters we
don’t know, and there’s this chance we will hate them.
I think a mix won’t work. You know,
create all these new characters and story lines, but constantly guest staring
these old characters (even when it is a recast) that must give us the idea we
are watching something we love, but actually it is something new. Or making all
the new characters relatives of the old one is also the same thing as them
guest staring as well as making constant references and jokes about the
original stories.
You know, doing all of that is just
trying to let us love something new by saying: “Look, all these old characters
and things are in it, you love that, why not loving this new characters?”
That’s what The Hobbit is basically
doing, and I hear a lot of people that (used to) be fans of LOTR hate that
movie because The Hobbit just relies on the success of LOTR by constantly
making references to it. (ex. LOTR characters that are guest starring, jokes
about the original movies, ...) That’s why I think a lot of sequels and
prequels don’t work, even when it’s based on prequels and sequels-books we do
love. It doesn’t imply we will directly love the prequel or sequel film.
So that’s why I hope they will do
something completely new with VII, OR something completely based on the old
characters (with a totally refreshing story of course - reinventing it),
Something in between just won’t
work. Or it does in some way and we will all be very happy with it, but I want
to remind everyone that something like that is rare.
So when they stick to a mix, there
will be the danger we will Hate the new stuff (and I think because of the hole
lover-hater thing that already is going on with only the Idea of an episode
VII, there will be a bunch of people that hates the new stuff - ass there of
course will be a bunch of people loving it.)
We’ll see these new characters/
places/things Interact with the old stuff we love. Eventually that will let us
hate the whole thing (because it are new things that penetrates the stuff we
love.)* And that is sad, ‘cause we will hate something that basically also
includes the things we love, from the old movies. And we see the old ones
making stupid decisions, acting stupidly because they’re interacting with new
stuff, that isn’t actually the thing we love.
* That is simply the way it goes
with sequels, we do love the old stuff so much, we as public are very protective
about it and we doesn’t want to see it turning into something sucky cause’ it
is thrown into a pool of new things, or this new stuff is thrown into the old
pool. That’s why making prequels, sequels and reboots isn’t always, in my
opinion, a good idea.
“A long time ago in a galaxy not so
far away we were this popular movie series, so you have to love us now to”
I do want to point out I’m not
against the whole VII thing, and I’m not this I hate everything guy. I’m just a
guy who cares about stuff he loves and hate to see when it turns into something
bad. I really hope VII will be something good. And with good, I don’t mean a
happily ever after-film (You know… I’m fine with everyone dying for example, as
long as it is a good script, and Hollywood failed on me lately when it comes to
making them good.) ‘Good’ as in honoring the old movies, but not by just rely
on their success and putting a lot of stuff in it that refer to the old ones.
That’s not how a good sequel works (or rarely it does), but I think an audience
want to see something fresh, new and original. Even people (it will probably be
a lot) who does want to see something new including cameos of the old cast and
storylines from the old movies, I believe that in your hearts you know that’s
not the thing you want Star Wars to be. In my opinion (can’t say it enough:) my
opinion, it has to be something new, based on the old stuff, and the old
stuff takes the lead, or something new based on completely new stuff,
only set in the same universe. Both ways, you have to reinvent your
stuff.
(But don’t say you are reinventing
it by putting in new characters but make something (story wise) new, that is
actually nothing new (for example Glee after season 3), and we all have seen
before. Then they’re just trying to sell the stuff by putting it full of old
Star Wars stuff.)
And that (all of the above) is why
I’m concerned about Disney taking it under his wings. You know,… It’s not
they’re not capable of making good movies. It just they manage to turn
everything in a sing along (I’m sure they won’t do that wit STAR WARS but
still...) love- triangle, high school-ish problems, silly, ‘true love act is
the key’, stereotype characters, ‘everything is actually fine even when we’re
doing bad things to our characters’, happily ever after - thing.
And that’s why I’m concerned. Disney
has this thing they want to hold on to their legacy (that started a while ago
with the old animation movies), and every (I know it’s not literally every)
movie they make has to be this epic thing with all these elements of their
previous/elderly success films. That’s why I think Frozen wasn’t a good movie,
‘the whole Disney image’; they wanted to put it all in there, and put it all
into a film for children, forgetting, children aren’t dumb. Children aren’t
stupid things we can’t expose (in some level) to something more than feel good
stuff. (I have more complains about that film but this isn’t the place for
putting all of that)
It’s just: Please Disney, reinvent
yourself. Reinvent Star Wars. So it will become something we can look at it
with a fresh start. Don’t give us the feelings we have to put it (=compare)
against the old movies, and base are opinions on how this VII is an improvement
or not to the old stories.
Because, that is, what I believe,
the problem with the whole VII thing.
Some of you guys probably didn’t
like my text all (or didn’t reached the end), and probably will point out the
inconsistent of it. (Like why I watch glee and think Disney isn’t a good thing
for star wars - there a lot similarities between Glee and Disney, I know)
Somehow that is what people do: proving somebody is wrong by showing his
inconsistent (or pointing out his spelling mistakes) Then try to show why they
have better vision, because they stick to their simple (as in short) ideas.
They then love themselves when they look at themselves as consistent things
with a very ‘own self’.
Guess what? People change and are
basically inconsistent, they think other things every day. Maybe one day I will
love the idea of VII. I just want to say my concerns about these lover-haters
thing on the Internet. How it’s not very healthy for a TV show or movie,
especially when filmmakers start to listen to their audience. And I heave concerns, as a future
filmmaker, about what Hollywood is doing with all this prequel and sequel
stuff. It’s all based on short-term success. And they try to recreate stuff we
already love as an audience, thinking, by doing that, the sequel would be
instant success to. In my opinion, they mostly suck at it.
I am completely aware the opinion of
one man won’t do anything about it, but I just wanted to say it. Star Wars VII,
even when I think you’re bad idea, I’m looking forward to see you.
All of this is also a call for any fandom in the world. Sometimes the
stories are over and we have to realize that. Not that you have to stop being
‘a fan’, I’m really not asking for that. I love the way a fandom can bring
people together for instance. What I am saying is, that a fan (whether they are
fan of) has to realize: when you care about something a lot: creating a sequel
or prequel or whatever, isn’t the thing you really want. You have to be aware
of the fact these things are often made to make money and are not always made
with the same amount of love the fan has for it. I don’t say there can never be
a sequel of anything, sometimes it is the right thing to happen, but when you,
as a fan, dream about more books or movie about the things you love, you also
asks for a possible danger, that can destroy that thing you love as well.
Sometimes a story is over, and the best way to honour that, is just to keep on
loving that, and in some way to let go the idea of ‘wanting more’.
I, myself, for instance, am a huge Harry Potter fan, I’ve always been.
But I also accepted the story is over. I don’t want to reed more books about
Harry Potter or see a sequel or prequel in any kind. Not even when it is about
Harry Potter relatives. Of course, as a fan, I have my ideas about what’s next,
and I would love to see a big reboot of all the movies done by another movie
company with a totally different creative voice. But, I don’t want to see any more extensions of the Harry Potter story. I will
keep on loving it, but I know it’s over and it doesn’t make me any less ‘fan’
for saying that.
The only way to stop this sequel-madness (I’m picturing Phoebe Buffay saying this word) is to stop going to
the theatres and maybe they’ll realize that there has to be some more original stuff being made.
Klaas Van De Velde.
20 years old animation Student.
And, OMG a reboot of BFG, why?
Spoiler alert! (‘A Very Potter Senior Year’) –
A few years ago Team Starkid made a beautiful and perfect closure to the
whole Harry Potter ‘thing’ (‘thing’, can’t fiend a better word for it, because
the word has to include so much). It really helped me see all of the above. A
Very Potter Senior Year, their third instalment in the Very Potter Musicals
ended with these perfect words:
QUIRELL: Do you want me to... (he
takes out his wand, ready to finish Harry once and for all)
VOLDEMORT: “No. Just... Let him go. You see...
Harry Potter, helped me once. He taught me that it’s okay to let go. Let go of
my hate. Care about people. Because of him, I have a new family. Guess that’s
kind of what Harry Potter is all about. But there comes a time when you have to
let even Harry Potter go. And that’s okay.”
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